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Post by bloodangel666 on Mar 28, 2009 8:28:28 GMT -5
Just wondering what you all thought about Female writers getting in touch with their masculine side... From what I've found most can't do it without making the character either secretly gay or too weepy, know what I mean? (sorry to Twilight fans) I mean the Edward Cullen brood and over sensitivity. Just wondering on your opinions.... And no this isn't because most of the concensus in this website are female lol, then again it could shed a light and maybe give some writers like ourselves a little outlook.
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Post by Silver on Mar 30, 2009 11:54:06 GMT -5
Ummm... well I like guys better than girls, but I do find it can sometimes be hard to NOT romanticize them. Hence I try and have Justin as an asshole as much as possible.
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Post by Admin on Mar 31, 2009 0:07:07 GMT -5
I've read a few books where the guys weren't that bad, but for the most part I find that since there are not that many guys in a book, the author tries to make a romantic subplot with them--as if every book needs a romantic subplot.
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DolorNoir
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Post by DolorNoir on Mar 31, 2009 12:58:04 GMT -5
gah! but i have talked to many guys, they have told me their feelings and stuff and i have come to 2 conclusions:
1. i hate macho/particularly masculine guys.
2. the reason writers put in that sensitive stuff, you know, the ones where guys are people too, is because they are emotional. they really are emotional. more emotional than myself a lot of the time.
besides, i've also read a lot of books where guy writers talk about their own emotions. i think that in general female writers are doing fine. but yes the romantic subplots are irritating. can't anyone grow as a person without falling in love? i think though that a lot of female characters are over romanticized too.
p.s. the guy standing beside me says that guys are like beef, they marinade in emotions.
p.p.s. you need another option in this poll: women writers are doing fine with male p.o.v. s
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Post by bloodangel666 on Apr 2, 2009 12:09:20 GMT -5
LOL Dolor thats what "yay false hopes" is for
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Post by Phoenix Ashes on Apr 2, 2009 15:19:02 GMT -5
Upon contemplation the only authors I have found not to make all their male characters either too macho or too, shall we say, emotional are Ellis Peters and Diana Wynne Jones.
Both writers though have husbands and sons, so maybe this gives them more insight in how males really act.
Otherwise female authors just make their male characters too emotional, making the whole book mushy. Then again some male authors are just as bad for making their male characters too emotional, take Shakespeare most of the plays I have read so far the male characters tend to always be falling in love or overly sensitive.
We might also say that sensitive emotional male characters are reflecting what is popular in today's novels/culture.
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DolorNoir
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Post by DolorNoir on Apr 3, 2009 0:18:51 GMT -5
hm. no because yay false hopes is happening to meet edward cullen and having him fall madly in love with you. i'm comparing the guys i know to the guys portrayed in my reading material, and i think that for the most part, in general, female writers are doing a fine job. hence the excluded but needed voting option: women writers are doing fine with male p.o.v. s did you even read my previous post? haha. yeah shakespeare really was into romance i suppose, but i don't know a guy who has not fallen/been in love. i agree with rob's last statement, and i'd like to add that today's novels/culture reflect today's society, AND what today's society wants: more sensitive guys, apparently. it's no longer frowned upon to NOT be a macho jerk.
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Post by Silver on Apr 3, 2009 9:08:24 GMT -5
I know quite a few guys who haven't fallen in "love". They've no idea what is it, and at this moment have no intention of finding out.
I know many guys who will discuss their inner most contemplations/fears with me, but not tell their girlfriends. Guys are selective about being "emotional" in my experience. And some guys I've met are cold and unemotional, preferring to maintain the hard-ass stigma. I find guys that are overly emotional are either being sarcastic, or have a really hard time acting as an adult. They let their emotions control them in a childish way and as such are usually too immature to be able to properly express themselves.
I find female authors sometimes use the extremes of emotion for their male characters; they are either too cold, and angry, or too soft and sweet -- and often bounce from one side to the other.
But this is just my experience.
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Post by Admin on Apr 3, 2009 11:35:43 GMT -5
I think it would be interesting if we all wrote a brief description of our "perfect guy (or girl)" just to see what this small group thinks should be prevalent in their "fantasy person".
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Aldarith Myrna
Cadaverous
oh doctor. webe groovin to the black light burns.
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Post by Aldarith Myrna on Apr 3, 2009 13:42:03 GMT -5
I'm on dolor's side here dudettes, guys definitely have emotions, and contrary to popular belief, All of them do. The cold 'unfeeling' ones generally either a.) do an excellent job of hiding them b.) aren't actually cold and unfeeling and that is the interpretation of their lack of care. Ignorance and Negligence can really appear that way in terms of emotionlessness. Assholes are usually assholes because of some prior event (or series of just such things that has caused them to react to emotional stimulus with anger or some similar trait. in this sense it's like walking through a minefield. other times guys just don't feel like talking about their emotions to certain people or at certain times because they are selective in emotional displays. They may for some reason feel comfortable with one person and not another.
Love is also subjective. Love is a general term for an amazingly varied colour pallete of feelings. Lots of people probably harbour separate definitions of the word/feeling.
Essentially the point is that the emotions are there no matter how many layers of metal are in front of it. Emotions can be blocked out or dulled, but not gotten rid of. Influenced, but nor removed.
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DolorNoir
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Post by DolorNoir on Apr 4, 2009 0:20:41 GMT -5
thank-you aldarith! yes, so guys have emotions, real guys have emotions. it makes sense that the ones in books would too. whether or not they've been in love. whether or not they have a very convincing shield (i am not convinced). as far as the guys who are very openly emotional are concerned, many of them are immature. but that does not mean that the quieter mature ones do not feel emotions as strongly. even if they do express themselves in a way that clearly conveys the message, the message is still there: guys have emotions. girls can be the same way. some can be very upfront with how they feel, and others more reserved with their communication. different people deal with things differently, regardless of gender. and the main topic: i think that female authors are doing fine with male p.o.v. s. "perfect person" admin? that'll take some thought... someone else go first.
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Post by starlessnight on Apr 4, 2009 21:19:16 GMT -5
For my 'fantasy person' look to Aldarith and Atorey. That's all I'm going to say.
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Post by bloodangel666 on Apr 5, 2009 10:37:26 GMT -5
Hmmm perfect guy.... One that's living within a half hour's drive at least lol. I'm terrible for long distance relationships. And i know guys have emotions and all that I'm just saying that some guys are written too feminin, I know tons of guys who share their emotions and genuninly are too senstive and yes there are the occasional aloof asshole, i know many as well. But men are not women and they don't cry in our society because they were raised not too. When is the last time you have ever met anyone who will weep, bitch and moan like Edward Cullen or better yet Lastat. How many do you know like to weep and do it for fun? Oh lol Dolor I noticed I did put in an option for your type of opinion lol its above False Hopes lol sorry forgot it was there, not all of them are negative . But yeah my point is some women writers are just trying to idealize guys in a more woman-like persona and I don't like it. I mean at the end of the day when your depressed or upset would want someone to just hold you or keep to themselves and not go "Well you wouldn't beleive what Jimmy said about my sweater! I've had a hell day too! WHy do you never clue in to my feelings!" *weeps*... Thats the type of over feminin I mean. Not all female writers are terrible for theat but there are too many famous ones that are and that's the point I was trying to get an opinion on.
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DolorNoir
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4am knows all my secrets
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Post by DolorNoir on Apr 6, 2009 19:53:04 GMT -5
i've stated my standings on this thrice now, and i am content to leave it at we do not see eye to eye on this one. however, that option is not one i would choose. ...but i will say that if your "special someone" has also had a bad day, you can bitch about yours and then they can bitch about theirs and they can hold you but you can hold them too. you know, one of those two-sided deals that are all the rave these days. and you went completely off-topic there in a super long run-on paragraph. lives 1/2 an hour away...?
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Post by bloodangel666 on Apr 8, 2009 12:25:48 GMT -5
hey its my perfect man, never said he had to be anything personality wise, it would just be nice to actually have someone around and not constantly only see them over web cam cause they live too far away to visit on a regular basis lol.
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DolorNoir
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Post by DolorNoir on Apr 9, 2009 18:12:20 GMT -5
i meant for you to continue silly hmm. my person would have to be someone whom i could believe. these days when people make statements with absolute conviction, i usually doubt that they have the will power to back it up. ive seen such statements break too many times, so i'd like someone who's words and plans are backed up with actions, someone i believe. they would also have to have a similar way of viewing the world, a similar mindset and morals and beliefs. for example: preferably someone who either was a vegetarian or used to be one, so they could understand it. understanding is crucial. so is communication. they have to be willing to speak their mind to me. they also have to be somewhat independent emotionally. im not clingy and i don't want them to be either. this person also just has to be someone whom i think i could fall in love with, otherwise there's no point, i don't need a waste off time. i can waste time by myself it would help a lot if they liked the same stuff i do. a big help. so is being good-looking. (although i've only met one person with whom i thought i could fall in love, and i barely even noticed that they were good-looking.) hmm. another thing (and i'm aware that this is bizarre) is their scent. the previously mentioned person smelled amazing! even when they were dirty and other people said they smelled bad! a few other people i was attracted to smelled good too. i lost interest in the potentials who just smelled like normal people. oh and one last point, i have to meet this person in person.
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Post by mishca on Apr 17, 2009 15:42:38 GMT -5
well.. I have an explanation form my mind (Which is active and spontaneous) Anywho, the only reason why I have a Male Character(JAmes) is cuz of the fact that I Try to portray him as a Guy should be. Although that went all out and now he's just a vicouse murderer! lol! But you get the idea? I try not to show him as a wimp (I do a good job in my eyes) and I liek the fact that I can connect that way. I've been picked on about it before...
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Post by Dark on May 22, 2009 14:59:44 GMT -5
Sort of skipped some of the posts here, sorry...but to Dolor Noir's first comment...I agree 100%. Most guys have a lot of emotions, they just don't show it and just keep it inside whereas females mostly show that emotion.
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Post by cloudedstormrunner on May 16, 2010 20:44:42 GMT -5
I've been working with Valentine (the "real" version we see dealing with Toru right now ^^) for almost two years. And before he was a "solid being" in my mind, there were precursors, so I think I was supposed to find him, as it were. I can't say I view the difference between guy and girl so much (him vs. Rose for example) as just him as a person- he's the type of person who thinks a lot, has deep, sometimes very raw emotions but does all he can to keep a hold on himself. He doesn't like crying in front of people or showing weakness because of the possibility that it could leave him open to damage, but he can be very sweet and affectionate or mischivous when it suits him. He also tries very hard not to make others suffer for his inclination towards mood swings. My gosh, he's emo but I don't have room to talk. There are so very many layers to his nature, how can anyone pin him or any guy as one thing? If he were to be viewed by some as oversensitive, that is not my intention. Valentine is simply himself, nothing more, nothing less. lol, I've had my mini-rant now, I feel better. Sorry if I injurred anyone's eyes or brain with it XD
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